[Hari-katha spoken by Nitya Lila Pravista Om Visnupada Astottara Sata Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja — Srila Gurudeva in Holland – 10 May 1996]

I bow down to Sri Sri Sacinandana Gaura Hari. He is like an ocean of nectar. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is like an ocean of nectar. From that ocean, the water evaporates, and the vapor condenses in the form of clouds. The clouds then clash with the mountain ranges, resulting in much rainfall and cool breezes.

During a particular time in India and the whole world, there is a special constellation called, “Svathi-nakshatra.” During this constellation, when the rain falls on the ocean, different substances are produced. When the rain falls on the oyster shells, pearls are produced. Thus many pearls are formed in the ocean and thereon, the ocean is called as “Ratnakar,” the ocean of jewels. The selfsame water of the ocean evaporated and led to the formation of rain-bearing clouds. Then, during a certain period called the “Svathi Nakshatra,” the rain is showered down on the ocean. When the rail falls on the oysters, pearls are produced. Thereupon, being filled with pearls, the ocean is called, “Ratnakara;” the ocean of jewels.

In the same way, the ocean of nectar and prema is Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And from Him, the vapor of prema went out in the sky, in the hearts of the bhaktas. It went in the heart of Srila Raya Ramananda Prabhu and that prema again poured down as rain from the condensed cloud like heart of Srila Raya Ramananda Prabhu.

Srila Raya Ramananda Prabhu’s heart is like a cloud and the rain coming from that cloud is equivalent to the ambrosial words being showered forth, from the mouth of Srila Raya Ramananda Prabhu. This love-filled rainfall descended, and entered into the ears of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, leading to pearls being formed in the ocean of devotion. Thus, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu became the ocean of pearls, and soon after, He knew the specialty of the very high class of prema i.e. Braja Prema. Pearls of the highest moods of love and affection manifested in the heart of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and then He knew who Srimati Radhika is and what Her mood is.

sri-radhayah pranaya-mahima kidriso vanayaiva-
svadyo yenadbhuta-madhurima kidriso va madiyah
saukhyam casya mad-anubhavatah kidrisam veti lobhat
tad-bhavadhyah samajani saci-garbha-sindhau harinduh

—Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 1.6

“Sri-radhaya-pranaya-mahima,” what is pranaya-mahima? You know what pranaya means? I think some devotees know. You should know that I am giving a summary of this prema. I will give a condensed idea of what “sri-radhayapranaya-mahima,” means. The seed of Bhakti is a tendency or mood to serve Krishna. “I will serve Krishna”, this mood is the seed of Bhakti. From where will we have this seed sown in us? Gurudeva and the Vaishnavas will sow this seed of devotion in us. When we receive this seed, our minds will be of the conviction, “I want to serve Krishna anyhow, and if I serve Krishna, my life will be ‘saarthak,’ successful.”

When this seed is sown in the heart of any devotee, regardless of him being lusty, vyabhicari, degraded, and fallen, but anyhow by the grace of a great qualified devotee, he will have the mood, “I must serve Krishna,” manifested in him. This seed is not a worldly thing. It descends from Goloka Vrindavana, from the heart of a pure devotee and thus by the pure devotee’s initiation or association, this very valuable seed is sown into the heart of devotees. When it comes, two kinds of symptoms are observed: inward symptoms and outward symptoms.

Outward symptoms are characterized by the immovable determination: “Even if I am cut into pieces, and the entire world becomes my enemy, no harm, but, I will never, never, never, give up serving Krishna. I will serve. I will try to serve.” Then Bhakti blossoms into nistha. This mood can be seen, not inwardly, but outwardly. By words and actions, we can see the manifestation of this mood. We will see such outward symptoms of nistha in personalities like Srila Haridas Thakur.

When many demons wanted to kill Srila Haridasa Thakura, he told them, “I cannot give up chanting Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. So although I have taken birth in a Muslim family, I cannot give up this chanting; never and never.” His perpetrators tried to chain and have him beaten, but he was undeterred in his seva. They began to beat him, but the more they beat him, the louder Srila Haridasa Thakura chanted. As they beat him more and more, being undisturbed, Srila Haridasa Thakura chanted loudly, “Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.”

Every time they tried to dissuade Srila Haridasa Thakura from chanting, the louder Srila Haridasa Thakura chanted.

[Srila Gurudeva and the devotees chant loudly. The intensity of the chanting increases every time Srila Gurudeva and the devotees chant.]

Srila Haridasa Thakura chanted emphatically, “Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare,” much to the displeasure of his perpetrators. Then, the demons began to beat Srila Haridasa Thakura even more, but Srila Haridasa Thakura again responded by loudly chanting, “Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.”

Then the demons became so worried and they started to think, “We are beating him more and more, but being undisturbed, he is loudly chanting again and again.”

They told Haridas Thakur, “Oh! You seem to be a paigambar.” “Paigambar,” means, “zinda pir”, which means God-like, a demigod.

They pleaded, “We are relentlessly beating and trying to kill you, but you are not being killed. We pray that you should be killed, otherwise Kazi will kill us. Then what will happen to our children? They will die. So you should be killed.”

Haridas Thakur said, “You want to see me killed? Okay then I will be killed.” And saying this, he appeared to be dead. They thought that he is indeed dead and offered him to the Ganga. After sometime, Haridas Thakur emerged out of the Ganga, dancing and chanting louder than ever, “Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.”

Srila Gurudeva: Can you do this?

Devotees: No.

Srila Gurudeva: I request the devotees, who have left chanting and relapsed again to smoking and other bad habits, to learn from this pastime of Srila Haridasa Thakura. They should take a lesson from this pastime and start chanting again. Then they will certainly become devotees like Srila Haridas Thakur.

Devotees: Haribol!

Srila Gurudeva: This is called nistha. It can be seen outwardly, but we cannot see the internal moods. But, if these moods are not manifesting internally, then we cannot see the corollary, outward symptoms. The faith is always there. So, don’t care for all the obstacles. Always chant, remember, and never give up the worship of Sri Radha and Krishna. This will lead to nistha. When nistha matures, it gives way to ruci. “Ruci,” means taste. In nistha there is no ruci, but yet the devotee is of the firm understanding: “By practicing bhakti, I will advance and it’s good for me to do so. This lies in my best self-interest. There is no other way to develop my Krishna consciousness.” At times, in spite of being aware, a devotee may sleep, but he will awake and think, “Oh I should not sleep.” He will think, “I should not do this,” but he does that. However, he does not give up. This is called nistha. But when ruci comes, then there will be no sleep, no idleness; nothing. Automatically, the devotee will chant Krishna’s name, and he will be absorbed in listening to hari-katha, and engaging himself in sadhu-sanga. He will be of the unflinching determination, “I should first perform these activities, and then tend to my other duties”.

In sraddha, the devotee’s first priority will be to perform worldly activities required in life, like earning money, meeting other people of worldly importance, and only after these activities have been fulfilled, will he consider chanting. Excuses like, “My boy should go to school and then I will chant, or I will chant after my husband goes to work. I should talk to my saheli (friend) who has come to see me, after that I will chant.” Excuses like these are made and for the whole day this attitude continues. This is observed in sraddha. The devotee wants to observe the limbs of bhakti, but he is unable to. In nistha, he definitely observes the limbs of bhakti, but at times he sleeps, and idleness overcomes him. But it is not like the stage of sraddha. In the stage of sraddha, a devotee will think, “I will work first and then I will do bhajan. I will do this, and then I will do bhajan.” So, Bhajan becomes secondary. When nistha arises, he depends totally on Krishna for all his requirements. Then he thinks, “First I should perform chanting, remembering, worshiping, and then I will do other things.” This is called nistha.

In the stage of ruci, there is no feeling of sleepiness, not so much labor; one does not feel laborious to chant Sri Krishna’s name. Easily he chants. But in ruci, the sadhaka has taste to only engage in practicing the limbs of Bhakti, like — Sravanam, Kirtanam, Visnu-smaranam, padasevanam, arcanam, vandanam, dasyam, sakhyam, atma-nivedanam. The sadhaka has no ruci in serving Krsna, His sakhas, Nanda-Yasoda, or the Gopis. He has only has ruci in practicing the limbs of Bhakti, like chanting, remembering, hearing, and the other limbs of bhakti.

When ruci arises, it is of two types. For example, when the deities are decorated so much, one may say, “Oh very beautiful! The deities are very beautiful!” But when the deities are not decorated artistically, the same person loses interest and will not say, “Oh the deities are so beautiful. “ So ruci arises when the deities are decorated. Similarly, when performing kirtana, if there is no harmonium, no beautiful, sweet voice, then no taste comes for the kirtan being sung. But if the voice is sweet, the person singing is beautiful and young, accompanied by many instruments, and many are singing, performing kirtana, then it will be tasteful. Otherwise, if the voice of the singer is like that of an ass, not sweet, or if the singer is not beautiful and young, then no taste comes for the kirtan. But when ruci is developed, and matured, it doesn’t matter whether the deities are decorated or not, whether sankirtana is melodious or not, only simple chanting of, “Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare,” attracts the sadhaka who has matured ruci.

If the deity lacks distinctive beauty, and has the characteristic features of big round eyes, and is black; as Jagannatha is, whose arms are absent, then when a devotee whose ruci is not matured sees the deity, he may think, “Oh! Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has seen Him and so I should see Him, take darsana, offer my pranamas and go.” There is no attachment. But, when paripakva-ruci, i.e. matured ruci comes, then on taking darsana of the deity, tears will flow from his eyes, he will be unable to stand, he will begin to tremble, and he will be greatly attracted to the deity. This is paripakva-ruci. Then, if ruci matures more, it blossoms to a stage called, “Asakti.”

Asakti is also of two types. The first kind of asakthi (attachment) is asakti to our practices of the limbs of devotion, like, sravanam, kirtanaam, Vishnu-smaranam, or the five limbs of devotion like, sadhu-sanga, nama-kirtana, bhagavata-sravana, mathura-vasa, and sri-murtira-sraddhaya-sevana. These five limbs of devotion are better than the previous nine limbs of devotion.

We should seek the sadhu-sanga of a rasika and tattva-vit-vaishnava, who is more qualified than ourselves. In sadhu-sanga, the names of Krsna are sung with great delight. Some names of Krsna that are sung are:

aghadamana-yasoda-nandanau nanda-suno
kamala-nayana-gopi-candra-vrindavanendrah
pranata-karuna-krishnav ity aneka-svarupe
tvayi mama ratir uccair vardhatam namadheya

—Sri Namastaka

he krishna karuna-sindhu-dina-bandho-jagat-pate
gopisa-gopika-kanta-radha-kanta-namos’tute

The devotee cries out, “He Krishna Karuna-sindhu! Krsna, You are an ocean of mercy.” But, a better name of Krsna is, “Dina-bandhu.” The devotee tells Krsna, “Krsna, if You are an ocean of mercy, but being so, You deprive me of Your mercy, then of what use can You be to me? What can I do with You? If You are not Dina-natha, Dina-bandhu..” What is the meaning of Dina-bandhu?

Devotees: Friend of the fallen soul.

Srila Gurudeva: The devotee will pray to Krsna, “Oh Krsna! I am so fallen, so I want You to appear before me as Dina-bandhu and not Karuna-sindhu. But, I see that you are giving mercy only to the dina (distressed and fallen souls). You are Dina-bandhu. But I am not a poor person?” Who is dina? Dina refers to those who have no wealth; who are poor. What is the real impoverishment? The devotee will beg Krsna, “Oh Krsna! I have no bhakti.” This is poorness. Worldly wealth has no role to play here.

The devotee prays, “So, I am not poor. At least, I don’t consider myself to be poor. So, You are known as, “Dina-natha,” but I am not dina (poor). I feel I have so much wealth, a good reputation, a beautiful body, I possess vast knowledge, and I know many arts and many other sciences.”

“I am a doctor, I am a lawyer, I am an engineer, I am an architect, and I have many other titles. So, I am not dina. So, what is the use of You being Dina-natha?”

“Dina-bandhu-jagata-pathe,” Krsna, You are Jagat-pate; You are the master of the whole world. You may be that, I bow down to you, but I don’t like You as Jagat-pate. What is the use for me? I want that You should be: “Gopisa”. I like Gopis. I want to be the palya-dasi or maid servant of Gopis. So, if You are that “Gopisa,” then Your glory increases a million-fold. So I would like to chant, “Gopisa, Gopisa, Gopisa.”

When the devotee progresses, he will chant, “Gopisa-Gopika-kantha,” Krsna is not just Gopisa, but He is also Gopika-kantha, the kantha of the Gopis; the beloved of the Gopis.

The devotee will tell Krsna, “So, I want to chant a name that exceeds the glory of the name Gopisa, and that is, “Gopika-kantha,” the beloved of the Gopis. But, more than that, Krishna is Radha-kantha. The name, “Radha-kantha,” is more superior, so I would like to chant, “Radha-kantha, Radha-kantha.”

Thus, kirtana of these names are observed in sadhu-sanga; sadhu-sanga, nama-kirtana. A devotee will think, “I want to do all these things. I want to chant, “He Radha-nath! He Gopi-nath! He Gopi-janavallabha! He Radha-kantha.” I don’t want to chant, “Laksmi-Narayana, Dvarakadhish, partha-sarathi.”

“I want Krishna, Nanda-nandana, who is serving Radha’s lotus feet. I want this Krishna more, and this Krishna is Radha-kantha.” This way the devotee will advance more and more.

Sadhu-sanga, nama-kirtana-bhagavata-sravana; we should hear Srimad-Bhagavatam. What to hear from Srimad-Bhagavatam? Devahuti and Kapila samvad?

The devotee will reply, “Oh! I liked it before so many years; in past lives.”

“What do you want now? You want to chant Prahlada Maharaja and Nrsimhadeva’s names?”

“Oh! This also has been done in my past life. Now, I don’t have taste in these pastimes.”

“Then what do you want now? Do you want to hear the narrative of Chitraketu Maharaja?”

“Yes, but no, go-on, go-on.”

“Then what do you want to hear?”

“I want to hear Rasa-lila and Venu gita.”

barhapidam nata-vara-vapuh karnayoh karnikaram
bibhrad vasah kanaka-kapisam vaijayantim ca malam
randhran venor adhara-sudhayapurayan gopa-vrindair
vrindaranyam sva-pada ramanam pravisad gita-kirtih

—Srimad Bhagavatham 10.21.5

Krishna has the color of a fresh rain-cloud. He wears a pitambar, which is yellow in color. He has a peacock feather adorning His head, and has a venu (flute) on His beautiful lips. He sings, “Oh Radhe, Oh Radhe!” in Vamsivat. He has sankha (conch), chakra (disk), gada (club), padma (lotus flower), kalash (pot), and many other symbols on His lotus feet. Mother Earth gets overwhelmed and overjoyed, when He places His feet on her. The cowherd boys shout, “Krishna! Krishna! Gopal! Gopal!”

sri-krishnagopala hare mukunda
govinda he nanda-kishora krishna
ha sri-yasoda-tanayaprasida
sri-ballavi-jivanaradhikesa

—Brhad-bhagavatamrta 2.4.7

All the Vrajavasis are singing Krishna’s names, “Gopal! Gopal! Krishna! Krishna!” So, being in sadhu-sanga, we should hear all these kirtans. Sadhu-sanga, Nama-kirtana, Bhagavata-sravana — you will have to hear Srimad-Bhaagavatam, especially these pastimes of Krishna. You should be qualified to hear all these pastimes in the association of rasik and qualified Vaishnavas, and then proceed to worship Sri Radha and Krishna. But, we should know that to only worship by all material paraphernalia; is like the worship of Lakshmi and Narayana. So, we should try to worship Radha and Krishna conjugal, like Rupa Gosvami and Raghunatha das Gosvami. In his internal seva (manasi seva), a devotee will hear, and being seated in his place; will engage in manasi-seva. He will have a line of golden pots (kalash) assembled. At once, the devotee will go to Prayag, Haridwar, Manasi-ganga, and many other places. He will take bath at all these places and collect khevda , gulabjal, and all other things. The water is collected and stored in golden pots, which have been assembled in a line. Sri Radha-Krishna are seated on a throne. Lalita, Visakha are ready to serve the Divine Couple, and the devotee learns what he sees, and prepares to worship Sri Radha-Krishna.

A wonderful incident occurred when Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami was worshipping his deity, Govardhana-sila. After his worship, he took the prasada of khira. Khira means rice cooked in milk, with sugar. It was a little warm, and he took very little as he was not accustomed to partaking of such remnants. He used to take only curd, buttermilk, and dried chick-peas. He would rarely eat. But by mind, he took a little khira on that day, because it was so sweet and fragrant. He partook of a little khira, very little, and fell ill. He honored a little of the khira by mind, yet he fell ill. So many good doctors i.e. Vaidya from Mathura were called, who went to see Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami. At that time, the vaidyas were so qualified.

The vaidya examined Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami’s pulse and said, “We think that he has taken some khira.”

The Vrajavasis replied, “Srila Das Gosvami never takes khira.”

The vaidya insisted, “I am seeing that he has indeed honored khira-prasadam. But it is has not been digested properly. I can feel his pulse; hence I know this to be the reason for the Gosai’s sickness.”

The Vrajavasis’ asked Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami, “Gosai, did you really honor khira-prasad?”

Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami replied, “When I was engaged in maanasi-seva, I took the remnants of Sri Radha Krishna; Their prasadam. Very little though.”

The Vaidyas then gave him medicine and Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami became all right.

So, if you cannot observe certain services, like arati, the 12 kinds of arcana, five kinds of worship, the 16 kinds of worship, then we may observe these services by mind and Krishna will accept. This worship is better than the worship performed by the body, because the mind is more capable and improved than the body. So, perform your worship, while residing in Vrndavana. If you cannot live physically in Vrndavana, then you should be there by your mind.

You should think, “I am seated here, but, I see many cows and gopalas here. I see that Krishna is here, and I feel I am in Vrndavana. I see the River Yamuna here, when I see any mountain, I see Sri Giriraja-Govardhana. I am pursuing Krishna in Raas.” When you think like this, you are in Vrindavan actually. So, we should observe these five limbs of devotion (i.e. sadhu-sanga, nama-kirtana, bhagavata-sravana, mathura-vasa, sri-murtira sraddhaya sevana), which are most prominent than all other limbs. If we will touch any of the five limbs of devotion or engage in all the five, we will certainly have prema very soon. Do you all understand what I am saying? Or will I have to explain again? Should I explain?

Devotees: No.

Srila Gurudeva: There are the practices of devotion. If you have asakti, i.e. attachment, to five kinds, or nine kinds, or the 64 kinds of Bhakti, then this attachment for the devotional practices will quickly develop into attachment for Sri Radha and Krishna. You will have attachment to Krsna and His associates, especially the associates who you especially like. You will be attached to the service they perform. You will be greedy for their service. So, you should be so much attached to Krishna, and if you want to serve Him like friends, then be attached to the cowherd boys, like Sridama, Subala, Madhumangala, Stoka Krishna, Arjuna, Ujjvala, Lavanga. Especially, Subala, Madhumangal, and Arjuna are prominent; Krishna goes to meet the Gopis along with these bosom friends. But, Sridama will not go as he is the elder brother of Srimati Radhika. He can wrestle with Krishna, and he may even pin Krishna to the ground with his wrestling maneuvers. He also jokes and engages in many frolicsome activities with Krishna. They play gilli-danda with the laathi (stick) and they go cow-herding together, but Sridama will not go with Krishna, when Krishna goes to meet Srimati Radhika and the Gopis. But, Madhumangala, Subala, Arjuna, they can go; they are the priya-narma-sakhas of Krishna. Nanda and Yashoda are of Vatsalya-rasa. And superior to them are the Gopis. Among the Gopis, Rupa-manjari is especially helpful to the souls of this conditioned world. The mood of Rupa-manjari is most helpful for us. So we should try to follow Rupa-manjari, Rati-manjari, Lavanga-manjari, and all of their sakhis. They are always serving Srimati Radhika. They are not so much attached to Krishna. If Krishna calls them, they reject His advances, and they will run to Srimati Radhika.

So attachment to the object of asakti is this. After that, when asakti matures, bhava will descend from Goloka-Vrindavan. It will come from either Subala, Sridama, either from Nanda, Yasoda, or either from the Gopis, and then it is called visuddha-sattva. After this visuddha-sattva matures, Krishna will give His darsana sometimes, along with His associates. As a result, all kinds of evil mentalities, anarthas, ego, everything will go away completely.

Only some smell or a scent of the anarthas remains. After this, if the bhava is matured, the devotee will go to where Krishna’s pastimes are being performed in any of the material worlds. Krishna’s pastime performed in the material world is called “Prakata-lila.” In this prakata-lila, the devotee will take birth in the womb of a Gopi. Then the devotee will take birth and become Krishna’s sakha, or His sakhi, depending on the particular greed he has for the service of one particular associate of Krishna. Then, in the association of those friends, or in the association of Nanda-Yashoda, or the Gopis, he will get purified. Then he will serve Krishna and his bhava will blossom to prema. When prema matures, sneha will come. When sneha matures, maan will blossom. These moods are very tasteful for Krishna and the Gopis.

Sometimes Krishna does maan and sometimes Srimati Radhika does maan. Each other do maan. After that it becomes pranaya, followed by raga and anuraga. Anuraga is the mood, where the soul is colored by raga. After anuraga, mahabhava arises, and this mood is followed by rudha and adi-rudha. So Radha’s pranaya is this: “Sri radhaya-pranaya mahima kidrso.”

The devotee will think, “What is the nature of Srimati Radhika’s pranaya, by which Krishna is totally controlled?” Krsna wants to taste Her pranaya. If pranaya is there, then Krishna will be tasted; otherwise not. So, Krishna thinks, “I taste the moods of Srimati Radhika and Srimati Radhika tastes My moods of love and affection. But what Srimati Radhika tastes is higher. She becomes mad, but I cannot become mad? Why is this? What is the nature of Her prema?”

Krishna’s four kinds of sweetness (lila-madhuri, rupa-madhuri, guna-madhuri, and venu-madhuri) enchant the whole world. When He plays on His flute, sweetness is emitted forth, and captures everyone’s hearts.

Krishna is so beautiful, Rama, or Dvarakadhisha are not as beautiful. His parikaras, associates are so madhura (sweet). His lila, pastimes are so madhura, only Radhika can taste these qualities of Krishna to the highest extent, and no other. Srimati Radhika’s prema is so high-class.

Krishna wonders, “How does Srimati Radhika taste these qualities of Mine? What kind of ananda, happiness does She taste and experience?” Krishna has this desire. In His pastimes, Krsna could not taste all these moods. So, now he wanted to taste all these moods. He was told that if He takes the heart or mood of Srimati Radhika, and Her complexion, then He can taste. He can taste Her moods, by borrowing Her moods and complexion.

A jiva, a soul cannot take the mood of Srimati Radhika. He can inherit some of the moods of Srimati Radhika’s maid-servants, like Rupa-manjari, Rati-manjari, and Lavanga-manjari. He is not capable or qualified to take the moods of Lalitha, Visakha, Radhika, and all other Gopis. So you are only qualified to taste the topmost moods of prema that Srimati Rupa-manjari tastes; if you are qualified. We can taste Srimati Rupa-manjari’s moods, if she bestows her causeless mercy on us.

So, Krishna wanted to taste all these moods, and hence wanted a tutor who can teach Him. Who are the tutors? Lalitha and Visakha are the tutors. So He heard that Visakha has come as Srila Raya Ramananda Prabhu, and Lalita has come as Srila Svarupa Damodara Gosvami. He at once proceeded to meet Visakha on the banks of the Godavari and there He met Ray Ramananda. Here Chaitanya Mahaprabhu asked some questions and Ray Ramananda replied.

Tomorrow, we will discuss their conversation.

Gaura Premanande! Hari Haribol!

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, you said that the jiva can go up to anuraga, and then to mahabhava, rudha, adhirudha…

Srila Gurudeva: A creeper has no avalamban, avalamban means support, to go up by itself. It will fall down on earth if it goes by itself. It cannot proceed an inch, without any support. But if there is a very big tree, very big tree, the creeper take support of that tree and can go up to the top. So Krishna is that tree, or Srimati Radhika is the tree, Rupa-manjari is the tree. If our soul takes the help of that tree i.e. Krishna, or Rupa-manjari, or Radhika and all Her associates, then he can experience and realize what mahabhava is. He can realize. He doesn’t have the moods at his present stage, but he will go up and taste all these moods, by the help of the “tree.”

Devotee: He can go up to rudha, adirudha, but not madankhya mahabhava?

Srila Gurudeva: He will taste all these moods. He will taste. A sakha can go up to anuraga. Vatsalya- bhaktas can go up to anuraga. But we are the dasis of Rupa-manjari, and she has mahabhava, so we will taste if we are qualified to go there and serve Rupa-manjari; then we can taste. Do you understand what I am saying? Otherwise one cannot taste if he is not taking the shelter of Rupa-manjari. The creeper cannot go up by itself; there must be a support. So, we jivas are part and parcel of the chit potency. But his dharma (nature), is to take shelter of very big tree like Krishna’s pada-padma (Lotus feet).Thus taking shelter, he can go up to Goloka Vrindavan and taste that premaphala (fruit of prema). If the jiva is with Srimati Radhika, serving Radhika, especially when Srimati Radhika and Krishna meet, then the pleasure of Srimati Radhika and Krishna’s meeting will reflect in the heart of the maid-servant of Srimati Radhika, who is attached to the service of Srimati Radhika. What Srimati Radhika will taste, Her maid-servant will taste also. Do you understand something?

Gaura Premanande! Hari Haribol!

I know that in your present condition, you will not be able to grasp such exalted moods, but by repeated hearing for many births, you can taste.